https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/favicon.ico?17113305112020-03-10T16:10:32ZRuby Issue Tracking SystemRuby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845732020-03-10T16:10:32Zsawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada)
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/84573/diff?detail_id=56568">diff</a>)</li></ul> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845752020-03-10T16:15:26Zsawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada)
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/84575/diff?detail_id=56569">diff</a>)</li></ul> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845792020-03-10T18:56:24Zsawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada)
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/84579/diff?detail_id=56571">diff</a>)</li></ul> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845832020-03-10T23:33:35Zmame (Yusuke Endoh)mame@ruby-lang.org
<ul><li><strong>Related to</strong> <i><a class="issue tracker-2 status-5 priority-4 priority-default closed" href="/issues/8661">Feature #8661</a>: Add option to print backtrace in reverse order (stack frames first and error last)</i> added</li></ul> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845842020-03-11T01:01:05Zshevegen (Robert A. Heiler)shevegen@gmail.com
<ul></ul><p>I do not necessarily have a strong preference between "to" and "from". I am not a<br>
native english speaker either; maybe it is best if a native english speaker could<br>
share an opinion in regards to (perceived) differences, when comparing "to" and<br>
"from" here.</p>
<p>As for the backtrace situation: I think different ruby users and devs may have<br>
a different preference. I do not have a strong preference; I can adjust fine to<br>
the changed backstrace. I may perhaps slightly prefer the older one but I have<br>
no strong preference here really - whatever the ruby team wishes to use as the<br>
default. I do, however had, think that ultimately it would be best if these<br>
aspects could be controlled in some way - I think I used comparisons to that<br>
with warnings in the past, and Warning has been extended over the last months<br>
(or years). Perhaps in the long run, when it becomes more clear, we can look<br>
which use cases may be the most common for people to use, and support these<br>
(e. g. make the "best" as the default, but allow people to customize what<br>
they want to use, ideally, including things such as warnings, but also the<br>
display of the backtrace and so on; I think there was once a japanese ruby<br>
user who wrote that he was confused by the changed backtrace, so simple means<br>
to regulate that may be helpful, e. g. like the idea behind rubocop allowing<br>
customization for a project/team). But back to your original suggestion, I<br>
do not have a strong preference either way. Actually if it were up to me I<br>
may even use a much longer, more descriptive error reporting, if it can be<br>
made more useful. Something like some "report" tool or so that could tell<br>
things such as:</p>
<p>"On line 33 you possibly forgot an 'end'."</p>
<p>Or something like that ... it is actually quite difficult to provide good<br>
error messages that are easily understandable, without letting the user<br>
guess. :)</p>
<p>And I think the ruby core team and matz prefer shorter/more succinct variants,<br>
so this should, if anything, more be an option - but anyway, I digress.<br>
Don't want to distract from sawa's suggestion and should rather make a<br>
separate one in that case; consider this more like some loose thoughts<br>
about the topic. I remember that it can be really difficult to know<br>
what is going on if the backtrack strace is very long; like having to<br>
scroll up hundreds to thousand of lines, only to see the error on top<br>
was due to a single letter typo. That is also a reason why perhaps<br>
bottom-error reporting may seem more convenient, for quick results.<br>
But again, sorry - I digress.</p> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=845912020-03-11T10:47:34ZEregon (Benoit Daloze)
<ul></ul><p>I'm negative, I think <code>to</code> doesn't read well in this context.</p>
<p>They are still stack entries, coming <em>from</em> some file, line in some method.</p> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=849402020-04-06T11:04:19Zsawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada)
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/84940/diff?detail_id=56790">diff</a>)</li></ul> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=849992020-04-10T07:52:52Zmatz (Yukihiro Matsumoto)matz@ruby.or.jp
<ul></ul><p>I don't think <code>to</code> is sufficient. I'd rather remove <code>from</code> altogether if there's no compatibility issue.<br>
Should we remove them?</p>
<p>Matz.</p> Ruby master - Feature #16684: Use the word "to" instead of "from" in backtracehttps://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/16684?journal_id=850002020-04-10T07:58:08Zsawa (Tsuyoshi Sawada)
<ul></ul><p>matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto) wrote in <a href="#note-8">#note-8</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I don't think <code>to</code> is sufficient. I'd rather remove <code>from</code> altogether if there's no compatibility issue.<br>
Should we remove them?</p>
<p>Matz.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree. Removing <code>from</code> will make it at least better than as is now.</p>