Misc #18954: DevMeeting-2022-08-18

• Status: Closed
• Assignee: -

[mame (Yusuke Endoh)]

The next dev meeting

Date: 2022/08/18 13:00-17:00 (JST)
Log: https://github.com/ruby/dev-meeting-log/blob/master/DevMeeting-2022-08-18.md

• Dev meeting IS NOT a decision-making place. All decisions should be done at the bug tracker.
• Dev meeting is a place we can ask Matz, nobu, nurse and other developers directly.
• Matz is a very busy person. Take this opportunity to ask him. If you can not attend, other attendees can ask instead of you (if attendees can understand your issue).
• We will write a record of the discussion in the file or to each ticket in English.
• All activities are best-effort (keep in mind that most of us are volunteer developers).
• The date, time and place of the meeting are scheduled according to when/where we can reserve Matz's time.
• DO NOT discuss then on this ticket, please.

Call for agenda items

If you have a ticket that you want matz and committers to discuss, please post it into this ticket in the following format:

* [Ticket ref] Ticket title (your name)
  * Comment (A summary of the ticket, why you put this ticket here, what point should be discussed, etc.)

Example:

* [Feature #14609] `Kernel#p` without args shows the receiver (ko1)
  * I feel this feature is very useful and some people say :+1: so let discuss this feature.

• It is recommended to add a comment by 2022/08/15. We hold a preparatory meeting to create an agenda a few days before the dev-meeting.
• The format is strict. We'll use this script to automatically create an markdown-style agenda. We may ignore a comment that does not follow the format.
• Your comment is mandatory. We cannot read all discussion of the ticket in a limited time. We appreciate it if you could write a short summary and update from a previous discussion.

[mame (Yusuke Endoh)]

• Related to Misc #14770: [META] DevelopersMeeting added

[zverok (Victor Shepelev)]

• [Feature #18368] Range#step semantics for non-Numeric ranges (zverok)
  • Proposal to reimplement (a..b).step(c) via +, or provide another method with this behavior
  • More clarifications provided & answers to the questions after last dev.meeting
• [Bug #18580] Range#include? inconsistency for beginless String ranges
  • "This was discussed during the February 2022 developer meeting, and @matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto) said he needs more time to consider it."
• [Feature #17330] Object#non (zverok)
  • Proposal to introduce generic "nullify if unacceptable" API (zverok)
  • more explanations and examples provided
• [Feature #16122] Struct::Value: simple immutable value object (zverok)
  • The ticket is in weird state. It has "Status: Feedback", but generic state "CLOSED", but I don't see any notice of HOW it was closed?.. Is it RedMine glitch?.. I don't see an option to reopen it.
  • The latest comment from Matz seems to lean towards accepting proposal, the only culprit is a name: "Struct::Value seems acceptable to him, but he wanted to seek a better name. Devs suggested Tuple, NamedTuple, and Record, but none of them seemed to fit for him."
  • Can we somehow move forward with this?
• [Feature #18934] Introduce method results memoization API in the core (zverok)
  • New ticket, proposing and justifying simple memoized def method_without_args

[byroot (Jean Boussier)]

• [Feature #18944] Add SizedQueue#push(timeout:) (byroot)
  • Matz said this should be required separately.
  • When implementing Queue#pop(timeout:) it was very evident this was needed.
  • Spec is return self on success, nil on timeout, like pop.
  • Useful to periodically do heartbeat, drop messages, etc when waiting to push on a queue.\
• [Feature #18885] End of boot advisory API (byroot)
  • e.g. something like RubyVM.prepare, or RubyVM.ready.
  • Would allow applications to notify the VM that they're done loading and about to process user input.
  • Could be used by the VM to enable some optimizations, such as precomputing constant caches, etc.
  • Particularly useful for forking server, but not only.

[jeremyevans0 (Jeremy Evans)]

• [Bug #18955] Kernel#sprintf - %c ignores a non-ASCII character's encoding (jeremyevans0)
  • Do we want the %c format specifier to transcode a string argument to the format string's encoding before taking the first character?
• [Bug #18958] Kernel#sprintf doesn't apply format sequence in some encodings (jeremyevans0)
  • Should we raise an ArgumentError when the format string is in an incompatible encoding?
  • The encodings listed in the issue are not the same as those that are not ascii_compatible?.
  • If we do want to raise an exception for this, do we want a new encoding flag for this, or a hardcoded list of incompatible encodings?
• [Bug #18797] Third argument to Regexp.new is a bit broken (jeremyevans0)
  • Do we want to deprecate passing a third argument to Regexp.new?
• [Bug #18767] IO.foreach hangs up when passes limit=0 (jeremyevans0)
  • Is the current infinite loop in this case expected, or should it raise an ArgumentError as IO.readlines does?

[Eregon (Benoit Daloze)]

• [Feature #18949] Deprecate and remove replicate and dummy encodings (eregon)
  • I will try to attend the dev meeting. Would it be possible to discuss this towards the end of the meeting, 16 JST (= 9am CEST) my preference, or if better 15 JST (= 8am CEST)?
  • There are multiple things to decide, see https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/18949#To-Decide
  • 1. (Encoding#replicate and rb_define_dummy_encoding()) is most important (for complexity & performance) and given the extremely low usage it seems safe to deprecate and then remove
  • 2. Handling the dummy UTF-16 and UTF-32 encodings, seems used very rarely but harder to assess. It causes significant performance overhead. Discussion e.g. in https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/18949#note-23
  • 3. Multiple devs want to keep (other) existing dummy encodings based on usages, so let's keep them for now. Maybe we could make them non-dummy or only available for transcoding in the future.

[palkan (Vladimir Dementyev)]

• [Feature #18408] Allow pattern match to set non-local variables

  • That would make, in particular, 42 => @a possible
    • This addition seems natural after we added non-local vars support for pinning
    • It also "restores" the original rightward assignment functionality
  • Here is a PR attached: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/5426

• [Feature #18821] Expose Pattern Matching interfaces in core classes

  • Here is a PR adding MatchData#{deconstruct,deconstruct_keys} waiting for feedback: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/6216

[Eregon (Benoit Daloze)]

• [Bug #18729] Method#owner and UnboundMethod#owner are incorrect after using Module#public/protected/private (eregon)
  • Also [Bug #18435] and [Bug #18751], they are all the same issue basically.
  • Let's attempt to stop hiding ZSUPER methods, this was never tried and I think would cause little incompatibilities. OK to try this?
  • The semantic model after that change will finally make sense for users and Ruby implementers, instance_methods reflects the method table, owner means in which module's method table the method is.
  • Also this will mean ZSUPER methods are just an internal implementation detail on CRuby, other Ruby impls are free to use something else like shallow-copy (like alias_method does) but instance_methods/owner/etc will be the same for the user.
  • The hiding is actually "exposing" ZSUPER methods to Ruby users because other Ruby implementations don't use ZSUPER methods and don't hide the visibility-created methods.

[hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA)]

• [Feature #18159] Integrate functionality of syntax_suggest gem into Ruby
  • Is it ok for syntax_suggest?

[mame (Yusuke Endoh)]

We could not finish all the agenda in time. We will continue on 25th.

[Eregon (Benoit Daloze)]

• [Feature #18798] UnboundMethod#== with inherited classes (eregon)
  • OK to change UnboundMethod#== to check if same method definition (and ignore from which class instance_method was used on)?
  • If not, OK to add {Method,UnboundMethod}#same_definition?(other)?

[mame (Yusuke Endoh)]

• Status changed from Open to Closed

[mame (Yusuke Endoh)]

• Description updated (diff)